Market Ticker Forums
Detailed market commentary at The Market Ticker and Ticker Classics (The Year 2009 In Review)
Seeing huge swings in your account value? On margin? Read my "Come to Jesus" Ticker? If not, please do. Click here.
Donations are accepted; we offer GOLD ACCESS for enhanced privileges. T-Shirts, caps and coffee mugs? Click here.
BlogTalkRadio - Mondays at 3:30 Central - Yes, TickerGuy has a radio show (kinda)
Rss Icon RSS available
MarketTicker Forums Read Message in Ticker
User: Not logged on
Top Forum Top Login Control Panel FAQ Register Logout

User Info It's Called "Precedent" (Bair) in forum [Ticker]
Genesis
Posts: 83025
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Chief Bottle Washer
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List Ignore this thread

----------
"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
Eaglewwit
Posts: 2787
Incept: 2007-11-30
Silver
SoCal
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Lock and load, let's roll.
Txin1880
Posts: 2351
Incept: 2009-02-25
Gold A True American Patriot!
Texas
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
There will be no end to it, until there is. smiley

----------
"Extortion, under color of law, is the hallmark of tyranny."
"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper." ~ John Prine
Hirooonoda
Posts: 93
Incept: 2009-07-31

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
This actually allows them to put-off judgement day even longer. Just more tools to prevent the needed correction from taking place.
Inline
Bighiller
Posts: 840
Incept: 2009-05-06
Gold
Vancouver, CANADA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
These ticker entries will end up as a big fat 'I TOLD YOU SO' when everything blows up and J6P finds out why his ass hurts.

When we hear the question, "What happened?" I'm just going to say, "Market-ticker.org"

It's pretty obvious to me that the US Government, and Canada's, have become a plutocratic-kleptocracy.

I have my pitchfork and silver bullets.

When does hunting season start is all I want to know.

----------
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, The Law.

->Too Big Too Fail? NO! Too Big To Jail<-
Sponsored Ad
Ilikecoffee
Posts: 1145
Incept: 2008-04-17
Gold
cold , AK
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Precedent, Is that what they are calling it these days?

----------
You can trust the government, ask any American Indian.

"When people lose everything and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it" Gerald Celente
Eaglewwit
Posts: 2787
Incept: 2007-11-30
Silver
SoCal
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I think this accelerates judgment day. Cost of capital will go up and hoarding will be more common.
Throxxofvron
Posts: 5105
Incept: 2009-02-17
Gold
Running Unleashed in the Street with Kanellos
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Silver Bullets: the Classic Touch!smiley

----------
DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
Bozonian
Posts: 15536
Incept: 2007-09-01
Green
Saratoga Springs, New York
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Isn't this going to start a sell off of senior secured bonds?

----------
I'll keep my money, my freedom, my right to bear arms and to speak freely. You can keep the change.

Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.

Bustedbuck69
Posts: 343
Incept: 2009-11-10
Gold
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
As I've repeatedly said, I can't buy anything in the financial space as an investment today - not even "big conglomerates" like GE - because it is impossible for me to evaluate their balance sheet and believe what I am reading.
Gen.

Doesn't your statement also apply to the non-zombie community/regional banks? I often get asked by elderly, frightened people, is the bank I use safe? Will the balance sheet tell me anything? I give them the only responsible answer to first question which is I do not know. The second answer is equally unappealing to the recipient, and that is that the balance sheet tells you nothing if they have a line item for MBS, CMO, CDO, because even the bank's CFO has no idea what they are worth.

I cajoled the manager of a moderate sized, non publicly traded, bank holding company to give me the balance sheet, and they had a significant number under line item MBS's. With a smile and a smerk he said we are 5 star rated and have always been a conservative bank. Thanks Buddy for nothing.

If they have a Tier 1 capital ratio slightly >6%, in light of the fact that the balance sheet says nothing without mark to market input, is not the Tier 1 ratio valueless?


----------
"---the politicians---they think the laws of mathematics are suggestions." K. Denninger

"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero." Voltaire
Mikek31
Posts: 1463
Incept: 2009-05-04

Chicago
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
"I knew I should've made those bonds callable."

smiley

----------
This report is, unfortunately, a whole bottle of "Round Up" dumped on the top of the previous month's "Green Shoot."
-Genesis
Sponsored Ad
Vegasradar
Posts: 4763
Incept: 2007-07-11
Gold A True American Patriot!
Wemmick Village
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Are you calling for 100% reserve ratios Karl?

----------
Remember, all Bennie has is dollars. He destroys the currency, he destroys himself. —Karl
Filling in the Pieces- an economic overview:
http://storage.denninger.net/ppt/teapart....
Schwantz
Posts: 5427
Incept: 2007-11-12
Silver
I am the wolfpack
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Well, to be fair, what did Bair and the FDIC have to do with the GM and Chrysler bailouts? Nor do TBTF banks have unions...

And how else do you get the ****ing marks to be taken when the White House and Fed have already been captured and have already immasculated the SEC and the FASB? The gov is always the super super senior, and I have no problems if they start to act like it via a legitimate democratic mechanism (it's a CONGRESS COMMITTEE that put this through), which basically means they can make the rules as they go (don't like it? go invest in China or Russia or Saudi). So it can jam down on the senior secured if it wants to (KNOWING IT'S NOT REALLY SECURED!!!), which can then jam down on the juniors/unsecured, which can jam down on the equity. That's the theory anyways. I'd agree with you if I believed that Bair was trying to protect holders of unsecureds and equity, but I don't believe that. Congress on the other hand I'm not so sure about, but I'd rather have FDIC/Congress hold the balance of power (no matter how ****ing messy that is) than the Fed/Treasury/primary dealer syndicate.

----------
Dives sum, si non reddo eis quibus debeo
Smash the Keynesian idiocracy!

Nuke_engineer
Posts: 1046
Incept: 2007-08-19
Gold
NC
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Wouldn't "FDIC insured" bank account owners in a failed bank be another definition for "government secured creditors"?

Sounds to me some lawyers are creatively writing out the need for FDIC money via new congressional laws....

BTW, Genesis, as you've aptly stated many times before, an investor must be able to explicitly trust the accuracy of a balance sheet before they can begin to evaluate it!

----------
HAL, All trespassers and pigmen vampires must be shot. Survivors will be shot again. I need to buy more ammunition!

Scotty, Beam Me Up there's no honesty or morality on this planet!

Lastchance
Posts: 1214
Incept: 2008-11-19

Las Vegas
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
"kleptocrats" ???

Is that a new word? I have never seen or heard that word before.

Anyway, unless the lender possesses the collateral, to me a loan is unsecured. I don't care what a prospectus or bond counsel or any other paid shill says.

----------
"Now we have a thousand dollar television that has nothing on it" Karl Denniger re: speech 5/24/10
Value = priceless. I can't help it. Too funny.
Mlshawaii
Posts: 819
Incept: 2009-05-13

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
One dollar of capital for each dollar of unsecured lending outstanding. A 1:1 ratio.

Karl, what is the current ratio? And what is the total amount of unsecured lending outstanding?

I'm sure you've written about it before, but I'd appreciate it if you could repeat those numbers. Thanks. Great tickers today, as always.
Skybluepink
Posts: 281
Incept: 2007-10-20
Gold
RI
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I've been out of the industry for eight years. I worked on the side that did the "sweeps". So, when we had the entire book of treasuries and agencies pledged as collateral on municipal sweep accounts, the bank was still allowed to count them in their capital ratios?? Ths sounds like double counting. How can these securities back specific sweeps and the overall deposit base at the same time? I am understanding this correctly?

On another note, before I left, we implemented FAS 133. ALL derivatives had to be put on the balance sheet & they had to be marked to market through income. If they proved to be an effective accounting hedge, the mark could go through equity. I'm still wondering how they got around this.
Bishie
Posts: 402
Incept: 2007-11-01
Green
Washington, DC
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
This is all about FHLB debt. FHLB debt is above the FDIC in the capital structure currently. So they tend to lend to zombies then expect the FDIC to bail them out. Putting this rule in would make them less apt to do so as they would be risking real money.
Genesis
Posts: 83025
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Chief Bottle Washer
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
I've been out of the industry for eight years. I worked on the side that did the "sweeps". So, when we had the entire book of treasuries and agencies pledged as collateral on municipal sweep accounts, the bank was still allowed to count them in their capital ratios?? Ths sounds like double counting. How can these securities back specific sweeps and the overall deposit base at the same time? I am understanding this correctly?

Yep. Sweeps were one of the dodges used to get around capital ratios - Greenspan was the architect of that bull****, as sweep accounts were considered exempt from reserve requirements thanks to what amounted to an "Executive Order" issued by him.

----------
"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
Ribbit
Posts: 1022
Incept: 2007-09-10
Silver
Wales, UK
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Lastchance:

klep⋅toc⋅ra⋅cy  /klɛpˈtɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [klep-tok-ruh-see] –noun, plural ‑cies. a government or state in which those in power exploit national resources and steal; rule by a thief or thieves.

Origin:
1815–20; klepto- (comb. form of Gk kléptçs thief) + -cracy

----------
Politics is just a shell game. Every time you pick a new shell, it always turns up empty full of ****.
Jjm
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-11-10

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List

----------
"In a mania, all investments are at the mercy of the greater fool. As in: if you can’t find one, you’re it."
-- Alex Daley

Reason: deleted - posted in another thread
Hihoherewego
Posts: 683
Incept: 2009-02-25

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Bair is gonna need an extra dose of Bayer.

..............

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Lastchance
Posts: 1214
Incept: 2008-11-19

Las Vegas
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Ribbit

Thanks. In plain english, it sounds synonymous with a looting operation.

----------
"Now we have a thousand dollar television that has nothing on it" Karl Denniger re: speech 5/24/10
Value = priceless. I can't help it. Too funny.
Schwantz
Posts: 5427
Incept: 2007-11-12
Silver
I am the wolfpack
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
So I've thought about this some more, and have one final post on the topic...

Let me say that I agree with the opinion expressed on this blog, and it's very very well thought out:

http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/215.html

The question in my mind that remains, however, is 'how do you get there when your system has already been captured and the regulated banksters know that they are in control of the Fed and White House?'

The only way I can see the banking syndicate willfully bowing to the kind of new taxation structure outlined in this piece IS IF YOU SCARE THEM WITH A MORE SEVERE OPTION that's backed by Congress / Senate and the people.

Always negotiate from a position of strength.

THAT'S why I support this discretionary approach, at least in the political context. It's only way I think we'll ever be able to get to a less-discretionary approach as outlined in this article in the long run.

Until we take that ****ing bull dick out of our asses, cut it off and jam it down the throats of the perpetrators so that they know that we mean business, they're still going to keep ****ing us up the ass.

Lean in with a heavy hand, or don't do it at all. Letting the banksters tell us how to tweak things is just making things worse.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archiv....

Peace, out.

----------
Dives sum, si non reddo eis quibus debeo
Smash the Keynesian idiocracy!

Top Forum Top Login Control Panel FAQ Register Logout